tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post3275728873127593305..comments2024-02-16T04:42:50.005-05:00Comments on QueryTracker Blog: Psychology in Fiction Q&A: Splitting and Alter EgosPatrickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17771807777617244491noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-3218768213465985802011-05-03T14:07:43.867-04:002011-05-03T14:07:43.867-04:00Amber -- I'm really glad the post was helpful ...Amber -- I'm really glad the post was helpful for you. Sometimes a little terminology makes all the difference to help us clarify what we meant all along!<br /><br />Eric -- You make an EXCELLENT point, ie that we are talking about fiction and not real life. <br /><br />It's hard for me not to say something when someone makes an assertion that is misleading since the whole point of the posts is to help writers get their psych right, but we did get off-topic.<br /><br />As for Mel -- haha, I bet I could get a lot of material out of a phone call with Mel! ;) (And there definitely seems to be a pattern with that lost woman thing...though delusional chickens are nearly as much fun!)Carolyn Kaufman | @CMKaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715666518147779502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-30183927777708951542011-05-03T13:07:07.829-04:002011-05-03T13:07:07.829-04:00I always like your psych posts. Reminds me of grow...I always like your psych posts. Reminds me of growing up and who I am now.<br /><br />I think there was some confusion in the comments, though.<br /><br />This post is NOT about real-life. It is not about reality or true statistics.<br /><br />It is about writing realistic crazy people in your books.<br /><br />With rare exception, the crazy person IN FICTION requires an event that changed them.<br /><br />People ~born~ crazy are neither interesting nor desirable, and we reserve them for villains and low-key nutjobs who may surround our Main Character.<br /><br />MC, however, needs a triggering event. They need a ~reason~ to be crazy.<br /><br />Think Mel Gibson in Mad Max (lost woman). Think Mel Gibson in the Lethal series (lost woman).<br /><br />Think Mel Gibson in Braveheart (lost woman) and Ransom and The Patriot (lost kids) and Hamlet (faking it) and Chicken Run (he was a delusional chicken).<br /><br />The character faces a triggering event that TURNS them crazy. They usually aren't born that way.<br /><br />In fact, let's let Mel write the next psych article. Carolyn, give him a call!<br /><br /><br /> - EricEric W. Tranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13842968931062056407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-50261170648597169332011-05-03T01:38:11.566-04:002011-05-03T01:38:11.566-04:00In response to Karen -- I feel like you grabbed on...In response to Karen -- I feel like you grabbed onto one little piece of the discussion and ran with an agenda.<br /><br />I took a look at the website you noted, and a glance at the "about BPD" section told me it isn't saying anything, overall, that's different from what I was saying, other than it emphasizes that people with BPD need to be treated appropriately, which is always laudable. (And I agree with that -- but since the Q&A wasn't really about how to make sure people with BPD get good treatment, we didn't get into that.)<br /><br />Many, many people, including Marsha Linehan, who developed the DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, for people who are just reading along here) the TARA site so adamantly recommends, believe that BPD starts out as (or just flat-out IS) post-traumatic stress disorder. And in many people, that PTSD is due to abuse, often sexual abuse. <br /><br />You say that that has been "discounted." By all means, please share that research. Here is one of the sources I am basing my statements on: "The prevalence of childhood sexual abuse in the histories of women meeting criteria for BPD is such that it simply cannot be ignored as an important factor in the etiology of the disorder. Of the 12 hospitalized borderline patients assessed by Stone (1981)...75% reported a history of incest. Childhood sexual abuse was reported by 86% of borderline inpatients compared, [sic] to 34% of other psychiatric inpatients, in a study by Bryer, Nelson, Miller, and Krol (1987). Among borderline outpatients, 67 to 76% report childhood sexual abuse (Herman, Perry, & van der Kolk, 1989; Wagner, Linehan, & Wasson, 1989), in contrast to a 26% rate amoung nonborderline patients (Herman et. al., 1989). Ogata, Silk, Goodrich, Lohr, and Westen (1989) found that 71% of borderline patients reported a history of sexual abuse, compared to 22% of major depressive control patients...[Another] study found rates of reported childhood physical abuse to be higher among borderline patients (71%) than among nonborderline patients (38%) (Herman et. al., 1989). Furthermore, there isa positive association between physical and sexual abuse (Westen, Ludolph, Misle, Ruffin, & Block, 1990)...Bryer et. al (1987)...found that whereas early sexual abuse predicted the diagnosis of BPD, the combination of sexual and physical abuse did not. Thus, it may be that sexual abuse, in contrast to other types of abuse, is uniquely associated with BPD."<br /><br />Research in this vein goes on and on, and I'm quoting from Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder, by Marsha Linehan. In other words, I'm quoting from THE treatment manual on DBT for BPD, which is the treatment advocated by the TARA site that *you* recommended.<br /><br />It actually sounds like you're suggesting that people with BPD have false memories, or are delusional. And while some people with BPD may have periods of dissociation or even some psychosis if they decompensate badly, BPD is neither a dissociative nor a psychotic disorder. I think it's extremely dangerous ground to suggest that a therapist shouldn't believe a client's assertions without corroboration from the family, and I'm disturbed by the implication that a client's reality is less important than the family's.Carolyn Kaufman | @CMKaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715666518147779502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-23467515063234479792011-05-02T23:39:10.532-04:002011-05-02T23:39:10.532-04:00I love these psychology posts, Carolyn. Very infor...I love these psychology posts, Carolyn. Very informative. :DStinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415189347501942340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-64974965207260968112011-05-02T19:16:36.218-04:002011-05-02T19:16:36.218-04:00As the parent of an adopted son with BPD, I'd ...As the parent of an adopted son with BPD, I'd like to point out that the statement that abuse USUALLY plays a part in the development of BPD is much too broad and, I believe, generally discounted. Yes, some of those with the disorder have been abused, but it is not a given any more than that old myth that a "cold" mother causes autism. The parents I know who have children with the disorder NEVER abused their children in any way. They are simply loving parents desperate for answers as to why their children are behaving as they do, and desperate for knowledge as to how to help these loved ones. However, abuse is often reported to therapists by the client with BPD. Therapists must remember that the disorder can cause their client to misinterpret reality. Yes, the clients believe they have been abused. That's their reality. The truth can be an entirely different matter. That's only one of the many reasons why it's so important to include the family in the treatment process. For more information on BPD, go to www.TARA4BPD.org.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151990565157847169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7454222325290313520.post-9047273541339921722011-05-02T11:00:52.842-04:002011-05-02T11:00:52.842-04:00Hey, this was unexpectedly helpful. In my WIP my h...Hey, this was unexpectedly helpful. In my WIP my heroine lives a very responsible life as a young single mother, but she engages in rare risky behavior (casual sex with strangers she deems dangerous or rough). A crit partner mentioned that behavior like it didn't quite fit with her profile but to me it made perfect sense as an outlet for her femininity and her pain. I tried to explain it in my own words, but now I have some terminology to go along with it...Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11608613897988195105noreply@blogger.com